Hi All, we are starting here with our first project… we want to adjust the forms so that the customer doesn’t see all the menu and fields that are not in his licence. so we want to set those menu-itmens to invisible. the question is now, should i do that in code in the onopenform-trigger or should we simple use the properties?? is there a (easy)way to find all those fields and menus that are not in the licence-file, or do we have to review each form seperatly? thanks in advance frank
If you want to change Visibe property on runtime you have to write it in code. Otherwise you can use object properties. Does anybody hides fields that aren’t in the cusomers licence?
Personally I would set the properties on the buttons and forms to invisible as opposed to trying to write it in code. As for knowing which is on their licence and which is not, just print the licence file and then through. eg. For the menu Human Resources, if this isn’t on the customer’s licence, set the button on the main menu to invisible, and then also set the HumanResources menu frame to invisible. Job done. Hope this helps.
concerning the visible question : isn’t it easier for future upgrades to write it in code?
just make the visible property False its the easiest way.[:D] harikesh
quote:
Originally posted by frank666
concerning the visible question : isn’t it easier for future upgrades to write it in code?
Do you mean upgrade to newer version of Attain? If so then in merge process your Properties will be saved in new customized version as well as your code. So I don’t think there is any difference if you have documented which fields you have eddited.
ok, thanks everybody
Hi Athur
quote:
Originally posted by Arthur
… Does anybody hides fields that aren’t in the cusomers licence?
This was one of the very first things I have done with every new Navision version (for us). It is very annoying for EndUser- admins to explain the users the error messages: “… Your rights doesn’t allow …” [:(]. IMHO the user should only see what he can run. I can’t understand that it seems to be impossible to hide all not licenced objects by standard (in the designer also!) in Navision [:(!]. bye André
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Andre … I can’t understand that it seems to be impossible to hide all not licenced objects by standard (in the designer also!) in Navision . [:(!] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good point. But we know Navision (aka Microsoft Business Solutions) don’t want to make our lives any easier! [:D]
Hello, You might want to put this “on the shelf” until 3.70 comes out. According to the latest information, menus that hide unlicenced granules will be a feature of 3.70: http://www.navision.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6373&whichpage=1 I don’t think this is actually an improvement - How will end users know the full range of options with Navision, if they cannot see them? I have known of end users who have been unaware that Navsiion could handle such things as Human Resources or Fixed Assets because someone ‘helpfully’ took them off & as a result had struggled hard to handle these requirements by other means [:(] When they eventually find out that they could have done it in Navision (Either as a support query, complaining about Navision’s ‘limited options’(!) or a Client Day, where they get the benefit of a full overview) they are not impressed! [:(!] The Navision sales process does not end with Project Implementaion - Our customers regularly come back for additional features, sometimes years later, as their company & Navision system grows & their requirements expand from the original spec. Most are more than happy to buy a new granule if they feel they really need it.
quote:
Originally posted by EBloom
… I don’t think this is actually an improvement - How will end users know the full range of options with Navision, if they cannot see them? …
Oh - this is a kind of marketing [}:)]. If it is so - that is IMHO the wrong way. It would be better to show all possible features in a manual[xx(] or on the Navision CD. Or to lead the customer to the Chronus database. NEVER show a button / menu without function!!! bye André
I totally agree with André. Never show a Button or Menu without Function to a User. If the User only see what he can do or work with his work will be faster, because all menus are smaller and things will be found much faster. Greetings, Frank
In my opinion, there is no point having the whole product on display if the licence can’t access certain parts of the system. Like Andre says, the error that occurs is not helpful to the end user. It’s the job of the Salesperson to show the product and all of it’s functionality to the prospect - to try and win the business. It is then the job of a consultant to sit with the client and discuss what is needed on the initial licence and then, after going live with the installation, handling an on-going relationship with the client and discussing possible upgrades to the clients licence. I feel there are arguments both for and against the idea of displaying all the modules and granules, so ultimately it’s down to personal preference. [:)]
Hi, Sorry guys - I have to disagree. Are you certain that opening forms that have more menu options will be slowerer than having them run through loads of code to figure out what they area and are not supposed to show? Most users I know are often too busy doing ‘real work’ to get out the manual or Cronus database just to check on the off chance that Navision just might do what they need - If they cannot see what they want in the main system, they call the Helpdesk instead, so it becomes a support call, and so becomes a time/money wasting exercise, rather than being a sales opportunity. I have come across sites where developers (Either from the NSC or end user) have gone around chopping off menu options and fields, eliminating everything that is not on the licence & you often find unhappy end users who struggle to find what they need & systems that are hellish to upgrade or support (Because of all the changes). You then have to undo the changes when they buy the granule, so that they can access it. You also find that the ‘real’ end users (As opposed to the end user administrator/developer) resent being treated as [:o)] by Systems Admin. Most people will only use what they need & not touch the other options anyway. If you cannot handle a message that says “You do not have permission…”, then it’s time to put the computer back in its box and take it back to the shop… Hi Connull - I think most end users would probably not remember the original demo. There is also the possibilty that the people who saw the original demo are no longer with the company…
I must agree with Edward [:)]
Hi Ed, Good point about people who may longer not work for the client. However, as a NSC you should be aware of this and new personel starting by setting up new logins (or having the client enquiring about setting up new logins). [:)] I’ve always thought a good practice for an NSC is to have a consultant once a month, visit client sites - it’s good PR and it’s a way of clearing up issues as well as trying to drum up new work - modifications and/or enhancements. The consultant would then be aware of any possible changes to licence and if the not used areas of Navision are only invisible, then it’s a simple switch on to make them available when the licence has been upgraded. Quote --------------------------------------------------------------------- I have come across sites where developers (Either from the NSC or end user) have gone around chopping off menu options and fields, eliminating everything that is not on the licence & you often find unhappy end users who struggle to find what they need & systems that are hellish to upgrade or support (Because of all the changes). You then have to undo the changes when they buy the granule, so that they can access it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a fair idea who you’re talking about and I agree with you, but with more and more Navision developers going to work for client sites, the level of programming will be higher and well managed! [;)] Like I said before, it’s personal preference and mine is not to confuse the delicate end users with loads of menu’s and to only display the one’s the require / use! [:D]
Hi
quote:
Originally posted by EBloom
Hi, Sorry guys - I have to disagree. …
Sorry Edward I have to disagree again [;)]. Your point of view is from the NSC. Make changes in the future as easy as possible. My point of view is from the EndUser and I have to explain all the error messages and the non-working menus/buttons to the users. To hold all the non licenced stuff for eventually changes in the future is not the right solution for me.
quote:
… Most people will only use what they need & not touch the other options anyway. If you cannot handle a message that says “You do not have permission…”, then it’s time to put the computer back in its box and take it back to the shop …
[;)]The system should follow the user and not the other way … bye André
Hi Edward, I think you’re right, when you say that Users are too busy to “explore” other functions. But if the the menu only contains things the user needs (or has the right to use) he will not be confused by other functions. And, right at the beginning of working with MBS, the work will be much easier for the user with a small menu. Greetings, Frank
Hi guys, Sorry if my last posting sounded abrasive - Re-reading it, it does seem a bit harsh. Sorry if I put anyone out - I can get a bit (OK a lot) 'evangelical’about Navision… Health checks: Excellent idea Connull - This is how things should be. Andre - Why are your users ‘playing’ when they could be doing real work? [;)] Generally, the system & the customer should meet in the middle somewhere. The system will of course to need to be changed to match unique needs. However I have seen Navision implementations fail (In fact I have seen companies fail, but that’s another story) because the client would not junk their old procedures or do things differently. Frequently the justification for holding on to the old way of doing things is ‘things have always been done this way - therefore it will always be right’. The clients who I find are happiest with Navision, are those who chose to be open to new ways of doing things & learning new systems when the project was rolled out. And happy Navision users is what we all want! [:D]
I agree that users want to know what every field, button and error message means and also they want unneeded objects to be hidden. Sometimes even NSCs have to explain what error messages means. But also I would like to agree to Edward … NSC wants End-Users to buy more modules but End-Users fast and reliable work… no?