Hi , We are going to implement Navision at a client site with the following specs: 1. 1000+ Sales Order Invoicing / Day 2. Full use of WMS ( Whse Shipment & Whse Pick for each Order) 3. Average of 20 Line Items per Order (1000*20 = 20000 Lines/Day) 4. About 200 Sales Return Order posting with Avg 4 Lines/Order. 5. Daily running of Adjust Cost / Inventory Posting Batchs. 6. Order Posting is Split between seperate Shipment & Invoice with all shipments & Invoicing being performed in batches of 100+ Orders. 7.MSSQL 2000 with 2GB RAM , RAID -5 SAN Array. Can anyone tell me what kind of performance can we expect. The client expects to get all 1000+ orders to get posted in 8 Hrs. Is this kind of performance possible with WMS (I have heard that WMS is slow) ? KMB
What sort of clients? Terminal server or XP and what specification. Remember that Navision is a fat client and a lot of processing completes at the client. Recommended practice is to not use RAID 5 - use 1 or 0 or 1+0. I think the hardware should be stronger (dual CPU and more memory). Suggest Windows 2003. I think this will need tuning to achieve acceptable perfromance.
This really is not a developer foum issue at this point. (Though I can see a lot of reasons for you to post here later, this is not one). Johnathan is quite correct, with the Hardware you are suggesting I would concider you chances as pretty abysmal. A SAN is going to kill you, and NEVER you RAID 5, does anyone every read the manuals. You need a serious server, and you need a SQL expert to show you how to do it. If the client has a hardware budget to work with, then I can only suggest to run away… [8D] PS in terms of WMS, it is not that slow in processing time, the biggest issue is the user work load overhead, that can then generate locking issues. PPS you do not want to be using dimensions without doing some performance coding first.
Hi, I really do not see any problem except RAID5. Do not use RAID-5. Use: 2 HDD RAID1 for operating system 8HDD RAID1+0 for Database 4HDD RAID1+0 for Log 2HDD RAID1+0 TMP files And use 1GB connection for stations that process shipments and invoicing. You can use Terminal Server. WMS is not a problem. You will need to optimize SummIndex fields and it normally takes few hours if you read SQL optimization manuals and use SQL optimization tools. Also you can change posting routine to COMMIT after each shipment. In this case you can handle 10000+ orders. I hope you read last Benchmark Report notes for Navision 4.0. They Run Navision in 200 user environment and was able to Create and Post 10 line Sales Order in 0.3 second with WMS, Manufacturing and Item Tracking (by the way Item Tracking it the main problem with scalability and performance. When we cancel Tracking functionality it almost double speed and reduce locking for our client).
Valentin brings up some good pionts; Also - make sure you do not update any Analysis View, by making sure that ‘Update during Posting’ is set to FALSE. Furthermore Automatic Cost Posting on the Inventory Setup should be set to FALSE also.
Hi Guys, Well thanks for all your replies. To answer some of your queries - David, this is definetly a developer forum issue now- we have been live for the past 1 month. Some other points to add : 1.The server is dual CPU.The avg. CPU utilization is around 40-50% (I guss this is ok).The clients are all Windows XP and the server OS is Win2003. 2.Yes, David i guess the SAN is killing us anfd so is RAID5.But the client already had the Hardware setup in place (provided & configured by HP). They have been using it for their CS2K2 application. 3.We have integrated Navision with the existing CS2K2 application using Biztalk and Commerce Gateway.All orders flow automatically through CG-NAS. 4. Each Item has only (?) 3 dimensions (2 global ones and 1 default for the Item) 5. Update during posting of analysis view is false and so is automatic cost posting. 6.For almost all processes on the Sales side we are using batches - 1 for creating whse Picks from selected Sales Order. - 1 for posting of whse picks and shipment of Sales Order - 1 for Invoicing the sales order. These batches generally handle about 100-150 orders at a time. 7.Since we are using these batches after each iteration of the Sales Order Loop (i.e after each order is shipped) we are doing a COMMIT, although in the batch and not in the posting routine.Valentin I hope this is correct.Do let me know if that was what you were suggesting. 8. No Valentin I have not gone through the Benchmark report for 4.0 9. In our case it is taking about avg 1-3 mins per Order.Although the no. of lines vary and this time is split between shipping ,invoicing and printing of the Invoice. I laid my hands on the Navision SQL Resource Kit and am currently in the process of profiling the process.Will keep all of you posted on the results. 10. Now the client has incresed their expectations.They want the system to be scalable upto 3000+ Orders /day.Is this kind of performance possible with Navision. I do realize (although a bit late) that I should have posted this earlier… but better late than never. It seems that I would probably have to optimize all major tables in term of the SIFT usage (including the base keys).Has anybody ever tried this ? Are there any docs available for finding which keys are used for what purpose or do i have to look at each one of them using the Toolkit. David can you give any idea on how much of a performance improvement can we get by removing the SAN array and changing the RAID to 1+0 ? Thanks again guys, KMB
Hi, 3000+ orders per day sould not pe a problem. 1-3 mins per order is too much. You have problem somewhere. Try performance toolkit. You should be able to get 0.5-1 second per line by optimising keys without code optimisation. Maybe you have bug somewhere. What vertion do you use. 3.7 have bug in CU21 in function CheckWarehouse that makes system very slow if you have a lot of lines in Item Journal Line table.
Could you explain me, what is the really big problem with RAID 5, that could cause problem
Please use the search link of this forum first and search for “Raid 5”.
David, this is definetly a developer forum issue now- we have been live for the past 1 month.
Originally posted by Kmbhartiya - 2005 Jul 19 : 08:07:10
Sorry but I have to agree with David here, not really a developer issue. Tony Moderator
Hey Guys since the solution might require code and Index optimizations and all where else do I put this topic in if not on the development forum??? I thought anything related to coding in Navision should go to the developers forum. Regards KMB
A SAN is going to kill you, and NEVER you RAID 5, does anyone every read the manuals.
I know about the RAID 5 problem, but I don’t see SAN mentioned in the Navision Server Hardware Recommendations on Partnersource (872402): https://mbs.microsoft.com/knowledgebase/KBDisplay.aspx?WTNTZSMNWUKNTMMYQLYTNSUKZPXKMUNVQRQQZUTUTPQTPZOQMRZZPPZMROKXPNTTSZUKNTQZMPLRPSPR What is the problem with SAN, or could you please refer to a link that might explain it? I have looked at differnt material on SANs and they can only praise it compared to SCSI RAID. So I guess I need some documentation regarding which situations a SAN shouldn’t be used. Late edit: Or even better: How can I convince the system owner that the reason for his system to be slow is because he insists on using SAN? I have looked at the virtual Databasefile table, but it says 0ms for write and 4-6ms for read, for all db parts. Anything else I could check?
Peter, RAID 5 is the real killer, as Val says, the rest of it you can work around. I would like to see the document that praises the use of a SAN with Navision. I have not been able to see a case where a SAN can out perform the same Disks connected directly to the server. Maybe if you have a huge SAN disk farm, then you can get so much scalling that it gets faster, but I have not seen it myself. Also there do seem to be two independent threads running in this topic, so there could be some confusion as to who is doing what.