Large LS Retail implementation in Norway - (was Hello from Norway :-)

Hi from Norway. New to this group and looking forward to learn a lot from the other members.Working with Navision for the last 4 years. Been working on implementing the system in a pizza chain in Norway called Dolly Dimple’s. Have 90 restaurants, head office and two region offices in Bergen and Oslo. We are approximately 300 tills working on the system, call centre with 40 users and office personal who is responsible for the accounting, reporting, inventory with more… The system is Navision 3.70 with Infostore as the hospitality system. We are running live on all locations in to one main database Informix trough 11 Citrix servers.Lately been working with Cenium on the SMS ore CMS ( time management system) and preparing for a BizTalk integration with our vendors. Today we are discussing upgrading to Nav 5.0 with LS Retail. Would like people’s opinions about this and recommendations both ways. Best RegardsRolfster

Hi Rolfster, and welcome to The Dynamics User Group.

As to Infostore and LS Retail, then I think you want to look at that Upgrade ASAP. Inforstore is a great product when you are small, but the way its posts Sales orders, means that as the transaction volume grows, it slows, and you will find your self needing some pretty huge hardware.

Hi, If you are running in SQL Server environment you will have a major performance boot with correct hardware by upgrading to NAV 5.X. So I would definite would upgrade.

I have only one question to you. Navision from a long time has support to BizTalk integration by using Commerce Gateway. Implementation that I know avoid using it. Those implementation use a customization to talk with BizTalk (XMLports, etc). In witch way are you heading? I’m trying to found out a successful implantation standard BizTalk integration.

Hi David. We are now working with Microsoft about the upgrade of Navision and Infostore. Was in a meeting 2 weeks ago to se the latest version of LS Retail for hospitality customers and it was pretty nice:-) The only thing i don’t like about the new versions of LS retail is that they are focusing much on running offline on each location. We are running live version with broadband in every restaurant connected to the Informix database. The second problem it the table locking issue in MSSQL that Microsoft is telling us is solved but i want to see it before i can believe it:-)But you are right about the hardware; the database is growing rapidly for each day that is going by. So i am excited to se what Microsoft and Cenium is going to suggest for us. BR Rolfster[:D]

Hi NunoWe are looking forward to start testing MS SQL to se if the performance boost is as good as you and Microsoft is saying. Today we are running on a Informix database that is top on performance and has almost no down time. Out problem is that we want to start using standard Microsoft applications as SharePoint, Notification server, BizTalk with more and we are not allowed to do this with a new version of Dynamics Nav and Informix. The problem is that we don’t have a ODBC Connection to use and Microsoft is not letting us make on either. About the BizTalk project and integration with vendors the status is that we haven’t decided yet if we are going to use the standard BizTalk / XML ports ore if we are going for a solution between our database and the vendors that is web based with a web services that connects to Navision through a web connector.Best RegardsRolfster

This thread has gone beyond an introduction, so moved to the NAV Perfromance optimization forum.

If you have a large database you will probably will have several databases servers. Having several SharePoint, external application in all same server that is NAV in some environment can a performance killer.

Regarding BizTalk I will give me personal opinion. [:P].

BizTalk Is an excellent product in addition, also I consider it rather expensive. The frontier that I recommend using BizTalk and standard web services is the need for adapters. BizTalk has a bunch of adapters that allow without minimum effort to support other third party ERP such has SAP, EDI, etc.

Traditional Web Services, Windows Communication Foundation or other technologies are cheaper but it you have to map documents manually. If you are defining a new exchange layout you can go to WS without any problem.


among the new functionalities in ls retail, an interesting delivery module taking orders, sending drivers…,

i think that would be usefull for a pizza chain.

Hi There.

In my experience, LS seems to only be suggesting that the tills are offline, the store database stays online.

In general, it seems th e architecture that is recommended, for an implementation of this size, is offline till with synchronization to central store db. store db stays online with Head Office. This provides maximum uptime for tills, and allows for the tills to be very responsive (keeping your customers happy, who are usually in a rush).

LS is does seem to push for a distributed model – seperate store databases instead of using a Citrix client. It minimizes the bandwidth neccesary. In your case that doesn’t seem to be necessary. It also gets you a perceived performance win by including batch posting functionality.

The major problem I find with the Citrix, thin client, model is that printing, which closes the transaction from the customers perpsective can be unacceptably slow over Citrix.

Hi Rolfster,

I work as a Integration Expert at Crayon AS.

BizTalk is an Expensive Tool?

BizTalk as a technology is good and has variety of licenses which companies can go for.So I dont feel “Expensive” is an excuse when you compare with Websphere.

The key part is identifying whether do you really need Integration.

It depends upon your future plans and current bottlenecks in data transfer and data security.

But let me know anytime if you need me for any discussion related to the BizTalk Technology or atleast knowing the Technology and the capabilities.

You can contact me on my personal adrdress if needed nishiljain@hotmail,

Biz Talk is an expensive tool - dpeneds upon the volume of transactions and the business partner software. If you have large volumes I think that is OK and if you can use a standard adapter for Navision and the “other end”.

How many vendors will be interfaced electronically? Are they all based in Norway or in other countries, perhpas in the EU.

The Navision - Biz Talk interfaces fall into two sections: sending and receiving and there can be problems with both:

In our expereince (with sites running in a variety of languages) sending purchase orders directly to suppliers uses CommerceGateway Client and this can generate “unknown errors”. The message is sent but Navision is not updated. The support for this could easily be much, much better…

Receiving is much more reliable but can be disrupted if the NAS fails to connect to Navision; due to network or AD authentication issues. BizTalk thinks the message has been sent but Navision does not receive it…

Happy to discuss or help just drop me an e-mail.

That’s what I was referring more or less in above post.

Most implementation that I know uses Biztalk to interface directly with externals systems but isn’t directly connected to NAV to maximize uptime / performance / cost.
Biztalk receives and order and it drops it in some incoming folder. NAV periodicity checks for data in data incoming folder.
With NAV 2009 you can connect directly WS and Biztalk this probably is the most perfect way.

I have to admit that I like BizTalk product.

I like Biz Talk too : it is very flexible and very powerful if you have the time/resource/money to learn and exploit it’s potential.

Biz Talk is undermined by the poor interface with Navision and the still-to-be improved support for that interface.

It was alwyas going to be difficult for us because we were and still are constrained by the capabilities of our coprporate Enterprise Integration technology and the version of SAP that has been deployed.

The 2009 solution is worth investigating and when we have finished the latest harmonisation project we will look into it.