Dimensions vanishing from Sales documents

Hi there

We’re running NAV 5.0 SP1 and have a problem where dimensions on sales documents (SQ and SO), for what seems like no reason, disappear! It’s random and we have been trying to track down the cause of this but without luck. When I say it’s random it does happen frequently and usually on a daily basis. It’s been happening since we had the system installed a couple of years ago and since an upgrade to SP1 it’s still happening.

I have been told that it seems to happen more frequently when we have updates applied and/or ADD/SYNC users but this could be a red herring.

Any ideas?

Hi Andrew,

I would suggest that this is a setup and/or a coding error. The fact that this has been happening from the start would suggest this.

Can you give more detail i.e.

Is it the same customer and/or item?

Where are the dimensions setup?

What are the dimension priorities?

Are the dimension stamped on the header?

What modificatoins do you have in the sales order environment? Any auto-updating of order lines in any manner?

Do you add new lines by copypasting some existing ones - not F8 column-by-column, but ENTIRE line?

In this case sometimes document/journal line shows all Dim values in Global and Shortcut Dims fields, but entries are not added to the second place they have to be added - corresponding DimValues table. You can check this by opening LineDimensions form.

This behaviour is present from ver3.xx up to now, discussed here many times, but nobody has found yet what the actual reason is, as it happens only sometimes, when unknown combination of reasons? prerequisites? appear.

Dave

Could well be a setup/config error or some modifications we have done although we havn’t been able to track. Here is some additional information

Generally when it happens the dimensions for the complete document (header and lines) are dropped. It would also seem that when dimensions are dropped it happens on more than one document at the same time

Most of the dimensions come from the header (customer, sales person) although there are few items that have dimensions also.

We usually see the problem when a SO is posted and this shows the errors. Then when we check there are no dimensions on the header or the lines

The only other information that i can supply is that I have been told that it seems to be related to when we do a user SYNC-ALL. Note also we are running in the enhanced security mode which from what I have read here is not recommended so I’ll be getting this set back to standard. Could this possibly be related or just a red herring

Andrew

Not sure exactly what modifications have been done but all modifications have been checked and appear ok. There is no auto-update of lines happening

Andrew

Modris

Thanks nfor the left-of-field suggestion. Lines are only added manually one at a time or by F8. We also insert lines with F3 and also add some blank lines.

Andrew

I would certainly look at the modifications. If anything is validating the sales line or the order and it is not validating correctly the line would be re-written without the dimensions. Thsi could be a particular combination, so although they are checked are they checked in relation to each other. You need to try and narrow down the circumstances that cause it, what are users doing to the order, is the change log on?

Ok, will look into this further. There is a validation that checks for how old the sales price is before items are loaded in. Could be part of this although from what we have observed it seems to be multiple documents losing their dimensions in the one hit

Andrew

I have spent some time testing this and it does not seem to be creating any problems. I’ll get our developer to check the underlying code but I don’t think this is the problem

Any new ideas?

Hi Andrew,

This would point to problem in the posting routine. I suspect a COMMIT command is in the posting routine in the wrong place. The way Nav works is that it will try to post and if it hits an error it will rollback to the last COMMIT - which in standard Nav would leave you in the same position. If you add a COMMIT half way in the posting routine and you hit an error after it then the changes up to the COMMIT will stay and cause inconsistencies.

I suggest you contact your local partner and ask them to investigate

Dave

Thanks for the reply. I might need to elaborate a bit more here. We see the issue when we go to post but the issue of the missing dimensions is there prior to posting. It’s possible to review SO’s in the system, prior to posting, and check their dimensions (on header and lines) and find the dimensions are missing. Hence when we go to post the error comes up but the dimensions actually vanish prior to this. Hope this explains it better

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Sorry no answers, only more questions [^o)]

Can you link the dimensions “disappearance” to any event e.g. releasing the order, document approval?

It’s rare that data is deleted - can you be sure that the dimensions were every populated? - would suggest a problem with the validation

Can you get it to consistently happen with a peticular customer / item combination?

Dave

We haven’t been abble to find out what the root cause is only that it seems to affect a lot of SO/SQ at one time. We’re very confident that the dimensions were there to start with. The only thing that we ‘think’ may trigger this is when we do something that requires a “Synchronise all logins” like adding users. As i mentioned earlier up the thread, our system was originally setup with enhanced security mode and hence this SYNC process does take some time. Is there any way this could be the cause? (I see from another thread that pretty much no one uses this mode so maybe no one has seen it??) Anyway, I am going to switch back to “Standard” security sometime this week and then get the dimensions reset for all Quotes and SO’s and cross my fingers! Unless this is not a possible cause then…

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

I seriously doubt that the syncronise is causing the issue as this is just concerned with permissions and should be go near actual data records.

Is there any other periodic activity that may cause this ?

Does it happen at a perticular time of day / month?

Do you have any NAS (Nav Application Server) processes running?

Do you have any external (to Nav) process running on SQL?

Dave

Thanks for the feedback and comment re the permissions being an unlikly cause. Now on to answering you questions:

Thanks

Andrew

If Filemaker is really only reading it will have no impact

However I do agree with Dave, the permission is unlikely. I presume there is no modification where the dimension is populated from the user? Where to the dimensions come from customer, item or both? I would still put this on a modification somewhere, it is just tracking it down. Which means if you can isolate teh changes (anything in change log?) then you can start to get a pattern of orders or timing which helps narrow it down - at the moment it is just a random event, and you need to monitor it closely to narrow this down.

Adam

Dimensions come primarily from the sales person and the customer cards and a small number of items also have dimensions. I just noted that on the sales person card there is a linking to the ‘user ID’ and this is not in Cronus so must be a modification. Not sure exactly what it achieves. I look into this

From what I have been hearing there is no silver bullet here and we’re going to need to track down what’s really going on and triggering this. I have enabled change log on 357 - Document Dimension and have asked all posting staff to let me know when they see a problem so I cantry and locate. If there are any other tables I should be watching let me know

Thanks for everyones input and when I find the problem I’ll be sure to share details

Andrew

If you add a salesperson to the order does it update the dimension?

If it does I wonder what would happen if you then synchronised and there were inconsistencies in the user-employee-salesperson setup.

Worth investigating. The synchr0nisation would not do it, but if you had a modification linking elements of the user to the dimension then this could be the root cause. Not the synch though, just the way the mod is written!

Hi Andrew,

The change log will probably not help you in this regard as it only logs user amendments and not amendments by code. You could write a report to test the dimesions on the orders and email you when different. You could schedule this with the NAS scheduler.