The Magic 28%.

Everyone in this industry, must at some stage have heard about 28%. I can’t even remember which “reliable survey” produced it, though I remember the seminar where I first heard it. Apparently only 28% of all ERP implementations are successful! Well I think we all know that that is not true, there is no way that any industry could continue to exist with a 72% failure rate. Of course, there is an issue here of definitions. By which I mean, what exactly is a failure. It is extremely unlikely that an ERP implementation is going to be 100% as planned, (though there is no problem getting a guarantee that it will, and just as humorous are the number of students and schools that believe it can happen). What we as professionals do, is manage the expectations of the clients, and work to deliver to those expectations. So what are a clients expectations, how can we measure a success. Navision has its special position in the ERP market, mainly because of the ability to deliver a very flexible system. In my general experience, clients are generally satisfied with their systems and their partner (NSC), despite impressions that may be given from the few disasters. But that’s just my feeling, and after so many years with Navision, I think I am entitled to an opinion. …but, I would like to quantify it, and to this end I would like to put together a survey. Basically I would like End Users and NSCs alike to comment on their experience of the Navision Go-Live experience. That is if there is interest. The survey needs to remain anonymous, and the results should be generally available to all NOLUG members. I will compile the answers on a spread sheet, and make them available to all. If there is interest, I will have the questions ready by mid next week. I already have started this, but to avoid bias, please everyone let me know what questions should be asked. There will be questions relating to specific implementations, questions for the process in general, and questions about the NSC experience. From this we would be able to build stats like average no of users, average implementation time frame, success criteria etc. Are people interested, I don’t want to do the work if there is no interest. And is there any strong objection against this.

Dave, OOOOHHHH, you’ve hit a hot button here. MBS and Navision have been trying to do this for years, but haven’t really gotten a good breakdown because they’ve alway tried to get it from the NSCs themselves. Let’s see, if the NSC bumps the numbers up, it makes the market look like there’s a ton of opportunity to be made, so the Navision will go out and recruit tons of new NSCs to put in their own backyard. This is where the NSCs always understated the opportunities and numbers…just like on the lead forms they ask us to fill out each month. No one has ever taken the approach of actually asking the customers themselves. Imagine that! Navision was always hesitant about contacting customers directly due to the confidentiality issues about whose customer it really was…Navision’s or the NSC. I wish you luck on this and if I can help, please let me know. Here are my areas of interest. We’ve always pushed for service to software ratios in the range of 2 to 1, but I’d definitely be interested in seeing reality here. Also of all the installations that took phased approaches, how many phases were used and how many actually made it to the next phase? What rate per hour did the customer pay? I know of ranges from $125 up to $250 per hour and just want to get a better feel.

yes the services to software question os on my list. no I don’t want to ask about rates. this is an international forum, and hourly rates just don’t compare. the number of hours i will ask though, as this should be comparable.

Understood, but also make sure to provide for a location / region / state within the US. I know it’s an international forum, but it would be very interesting to see what states the majority of Navision installs are in here in the US. MBS won’t make this available to anyone. Imagine and NSC trying to perform business planning without basic info like that.

Well, from my point of view, there are several categories of questions concerning top managers, data processing specialists or end-users. For the manager, i think that a project’s success concern these aspects (non exhaustive) : Return On Investment / Level of end user’s satisfaction / The successfull installation of the organisational changes associated to the project. For data processing specialists (customers’s face), i think that a project’s success concern these aspects (non exhaustive): Facility of personnalization / Facility of installation (main product and specific’s objects). For end-users, i think that a project’s success concern these aspects (non exhaustive): Facility of use / Number of bugs / Adequation between the software and the trade. After that, i think it’s difficult to measure exactly success rate because there’s many points of view and many people concerned by the project in one company (more in groupement of company and many more in international groups). Perhaps there’s key peoples to be questioned : General Manager - I.T. Manager - Developper team leader - Project Manager - Pilot Accounting user - Pilot Sales user - Pilot Purchase user - Pilot Production user …

Michel, thanks for the input, I will try to quantify these issues, and add them to the questionaire. just an fyi, I don’t expect to truly quantify a sucessful Navision implementation, I just want to get enough informatio to try to find what works and what doesn’t.

There was a similar thread recently:

Hi sv, I just took a look, quite interesting, but not what I am after (mind you some of the questions may be useful). That questionaire is more of a “these are the things you should do to implement any erp system”. I want a specific set of navision stats, to know just how successfull they are.

My little bit to this: I have seen some disasters. I think this is just because an attitude problem. Selling first and then see how to implement it. It might work out in most cases, but not always. I always thought second hand car dealers are the worst species on the planet, not true. It’s the people who sell software. If you sell Navision to the customers it is made for and there is a competent NSC doing the mods, the success rate should be 90% plus.

Hi Tom, couldn’t agree more, so what questions do you have to add to the list. btw are you customer, nsc or ntr, … just noting your Reading location.

Reading location? Have a guess, you will be probably right! I am for years with the Navision product. Main issues: wrongly sold , underestimated Dev. afford. From the NTR point of view, I can confirm this. It is not true that Navision doesn’t talk to end customers if there are some serioues issues. But not for the daily ongoing support issues, that is Solution Centre business. And this needs to be agreed with the NSC in first place.

I can add that in the Netherlands, MBS every year calls a random size of customers from every MSB partner. After that, there is a meeting where (among others) the partner of the year is called, being the partner who has the best customer sattisfaction. Main two questions are: 1. If you had to choose your new soluition again, would it be Navision? 2. If you had to choose your NSC agina, would it be the same? I also know one NSC who has forbidden MBS to call his customers…

I am an end user that has installed Navision in two companies (different employers). Below I’ll give brief experiences with both of my installs so you can see the issue here isn’t always “good” or “bad.” I think we need a few evaluation points and perhaps a rating scale such as A-F. In the first installation, I delt with an NSC that was poorly trained, larely due to turnover in their organization. Their turnover lead to our internal staff doing almost the entire install. It also extended the installation timeframe. In this case I would rate the NSC sell job an A, NSC implementation a C, Unmodified Navision an A, the mods (by the NSC) a C. The second installation, where I am working now, the NSC we used oversold the capabilities, particularly in the area of 3rd party add-on’s. Some were great…some were crap. When we challenged them with the documentation used for the quote, etc. They took an “it’s not our problem” approach. Which is why we have a new NSC now. The shortcomings of the add on’s had to be corrected via a significant investment in programming time. This install was significantly larger than my first and the first “go live” date failed. It failed due to bugs found in the 2.6AD warehouse management system. Yes they were bugs, not a need for a mod. Which was hard to believe since 2.5/2.6AD had been out for more than 2 years at that point. Two weeks later we went live with the bug fixes (that we had to pay for them in order to get them done in a hurry). Here I would say I would rate the NSC sell job an F, NSC implementation an C, Unmodified Navision a C (no excuse for the WM bugs…some of which still create daily headaches), the mods (by the NSC) a B. This is a complicated question and I think the answer needs to be quantified. But I do think this is a really good topic. Perhaps we could capture industry information as well…perhaps Navision is successful in distribution but perhaps service industies its not a good fit.

Hi speetz, thanks for the comments, this is exactly what I am after. I guess you are interested? if you have further questions you would like added, please let me know.

I just realized that I missed an important evaluation point … ourselves. The participation level and expectation level from the end user is really important. In the case of my present employer this install was really difficult. We had a “too many cooks in the kitchen” problem combined with everyone’s desire to write Navision reports and screens to look like our old system. In this area, I would give ourselves a D. Which I can imagine is where most implementations fail.


Originally posted by speetz
I just realized that I missed an important evaluation point … ourselves. …

I didn’t forget this part [;)] Every one has their role and responsibility in the implementation process. One simple fact? is that every hour put into the project by the NSC, should be matched by one hour from the client. I know this does not always happen.

OK, so is the interest for this?

ah well another idea dead[V]

I see a lot of people reading the thread. All I want is one line replies “yes” or “no” if there is enough interest, I will conduct the survy.