The discussion in this thread has initially started in Topic “Using VB and CFRONT to insert a record”. New Readers might consider reading that thread first! My conclusion of what has been said already about this subject is: Developers wish to have a better and modern developement environment (RAD) which should replace C/SIDE asap. Suggestions which have been made are: VB, VB.Net, C++ and Delphi. I hope I didn’t forget one (or does someone want COBOL 57 ?). Depending on personal experience, each participant of the thread suggested - of course - the RAD he knows and likes best. So far so good. Without entering the discussion about which RAD would be the best, I would like to state some points which I consider mandatory for a new RAD: 1) Syntax which is easy to read (VB, Delphi) 2) A better debugger (VB, C++, Delphi) 3) Sophisticated heap-management, pointers etc (C++, Delphi) 4) Platform and OS independence (Delphi, C++) 5) Programming language should be widely known, lots of examples available (VB, C++) 6) Smart compiler which is able to avoid compiling unused libraries, variables, functions (Delphi is excellent in this point. C++ is ok. VB leaves this to the programmer) 7) Compiler which states not only errors but also gives hints and warnings. Such as uninitialized variables, unused functions/variables etc. 8) Good integration of Microsoft libraries (VB, C++) 9) Exception handling 10) Support of Visual OCX controls 11) Option, to create OCX’s 12) Internet capabilities The numbers do not reflect any priority. Any other “must-haves” I forgot? I think we should first come to a conclusion what we want to have before we discuss about which RAD would best serve the needs. Marcus Marcus Fabian phone: +41 79 4397872 firstname.lastname@example.org
I’d just like to add my $.02 worth… The IDE should hopefully be complete with an adequate on line help facility. Also it should be available to All so that learning isn’t such a struggle. Personally i find this a pain, As an end user who has worked in Access / VB / VBA and a few other things i find it frustrating to know what i want to do and can’t find any help to accomplish it. an example that frustrated me the other bay was wanting to break out of a loop if a value had been reached. There is online one example of CurrReport.break, but no where does it mention that break cannot be used either on its own or prefaced by anything else!! Also on a similar subject… If Navision want to widen it’s user base it would find it so much easier if it / microsoft could tap into the huge number of VB / C / other language programmers intead of the select few Navision experts. Bruce
Marcus, Good job done. You covered all I was thinking of too. But I’m really curious by now if anybody has seen already what will be used in NF 3.0. Given the fact that it will be released in a couple of months from now, there surely must be more info already. Bruce, The C/AL on-line help is far from perfect. Nor complete. However, for controlling loops etc. you should have a look at the C/AL Programming Guidelines document. This shows how to use for/next, Do/Until, Dialogs and so on in more detail. Ask your NSC for a copy of the PDF file. John
Bruce, >>If Navision want to widen it’s user base it would find it so much easier if it / microsoft could tap into the huge number of VB / C / other language programmers intead of the select few Navision experts.<< I think the most important is to understand the business logic. The language itselves is only a matter of Syntax. In other words: Being a good C programmer doesn’t mean you’ll be a good Navision programmer. — John, >>Given the fact that it will be released in a couple of months from now, there surely must be more info already.<< No !!! Let me give you an example what happened between Navision DK and me this month: I had developed a module (I call it Soundex) which is able to find double addresses. I applied for the permission to make this tool an intl. Add-On. Navision refused with the argument that it would compete a feature which will be implemented in Fin 3.0. (As a rule Add-Ons must not compete with a Standard Feature or an existing Add-On). The refusal didn’t even reach Denmark. It was Navision Switzerland which refused. They had to, even though they didn’t know what the new standard feature from DK would contain. Therefore I contacted the project manager in charge at NDK directly: I explained to him the features of my tool and asked a simple question: “What does your tool contain? Is mine a competition”. The answer was simply that the were not willig to give any information or comments about what is planned for the future. This little incident makes me believe that as a matter of fact we will have to wait for the official release of W3.00 until we get any information what’s being developed in the sacred halls of Navision DK. Marcus Marcus Fabian phone: +41 79 4397872 email@example.com
Marcus, “we don’t comment on future releases” is common practice. Can have understanding for not revealing the “crown jewels” in advance (specs might change, don’t want to be blocking running sales, hide from prying eyes from competitors, etc). But we’re not asking for fine details here (like your question on a specific feature was), it’s a more generic issue - in the same line as “NF3.0 will support BizTalk and XML.” Aren’t there any beta-testers? John
Hi John, >>Aren’t there any beta-testers?<< Yes there are: 41000 customers, are beta-testing 3.0 on day x+1 Marcus Marcus Fabian phone: +41 79 4397872 firstname.lastname@example.org
…but we were supposed to talk about the development environment. One option, as I recall, wasn’t mentioned yet. How about integrating Unprises VCL in Navision?
You mean Inprise (former Borland)? That would be simply phantastic in my opinion. We could use Delphi in this case as Developement tool. As both C/SIDE and Delphi have their roots in Turbo Pascal 3.0, the syntax-changes would be relatively small and and the learning-curve for the developers would be faster. Marcus Marcus Fabian phone: +41 79 4397872 email@example.com
At first I want to say my opinion about NF strategy: Navision AS has FAILURED !!! Why ? C/AL is oriented to book-keepers, but not to programmers. Did they think that C/AL is enought simple for finciers, like MS Excel ? All customers trying to employ a programmer for that, but C/AL is to poor for self-respected programmers. Today nobody enjoy programing in C/AL !!! I had spent a lot of time using CFront, then switched to C/AL I was missed about 60 % funcsionality !!! NF exported only about 60% funcionality of CFront. BLOB’s in C/AL looking very funny, comparing them in CFront. In the Cfront BLOB’s are most powerful thing. If divide NF developers into 3 groups and decide on overall mark(10), it will look: Database managment - 10; GUI - 5; C/AL - 3; About new IDE. I don’t think that NF will have new IDE. They should start from zero to develop new IDE and GUI. That about greedy behavior, counting of everything and demand on payment. Check out how far are NF 3.51 and 2.60 !!! Compare Turbo pascal and Delphi !!! Very funny then book-keepers making development soft. I hope, I’m wrong. Let’s dream about new NF programming style: CORBA !!!
for finciers, like MS Excel ? All customers trying to employ a programmer for that, but C/AL is to poor for self-respected programmers. Today nobody enjoy programing in C/AL !!! <<<< Are you sure?? As coder, i’m still self respected… and i’m using C/AL… i must agree that C/AL is TOO limited, but it’s still funny coding some un-implemted procedures that should be easier in other languajes… but make a really quest on C/AL… if you suceed on it at least… I know that sometimes it’s really ungratefull seing the limitations navision has (and specially when having to code a lot for making a two-lines-in-other-language process), but if you really enjoy coding you can also still do some nice things in C/AL. About being a good coder or a good navision coder… well… may be a good C Coder is not a good navision Coder… but a good coder should learn as easy being a good C coder than being a good navision coder (if having a good economist for helping when coding navision ) Regards, – Alfonso Pertierra firstname.lastname@example.org Spain
These are part of the enhancements planned for Fin 3.0 (only chapter C/SIDE). If you want to see the full features, you might find them at www.mynavision.net in th edownloda forum. Please note that it might some days (until Nov 2nd) until the document is being posted! The following is part of an official document, published by Navisio DK Sept 15th 2000. — QUOTE C/SIDE Features Application Server We are also introducing a middle-tier, which allows the business logic to be executed on an application server. This Navision application server allows us to integrate to our shortcoming Internet-based products both on a data and business logic level. In this respect we support a two-tier model for our Windows clients, and a multi-tier model for our Internet clients. Hyperlinks We will add functionality that allows users to easily create hyperlinks to the forms and reports they see on their screen. We will add functionality that allows users to execute hyperlinks from external products into Navision Financials to application forms and reports. We will also create functionality that allows C/AL developers to create links in C/AL to application forms and reports. These links can be communicated to external programs through e-mails, XML-documents, files, etc. Allow users to hyperlink to elements in the Navision WIN32 client user interface. We will make it possible to hyperlink to elements of the WIN32 user interface, to allow other programs to give a “web-like” access to the different parts of the WIN32 UI. We specifically don’t want to make the Navision WIN32 UI more web-like, that is, users of the WIN32 UI will not get any elements of a “browser-like” UI while using the Navision WIN32 client. What they will get is the ability for browser-like products to start the WIN32 client and position the user in a particular view. Single instance code unit The first time you use a single instance code, it is instantiates (loaded in memory). A single instance code unit is instantiated when you use it for the first time. Normal code unit instances (code units that do not have the Single Instance property set) are deleted whenever the last code unit variable that uses that code unit instance goes out of scope. However, single instance code units remain instantiated until you close the company. Events The Automation Controller has been improved with support for COM Events. COM Events will allow a trigger to execute from an external appellation. For example, the phone rings and a TAPI appellation will execute a trigger in a single instance code unit, there will display a form with the customers data on. Multilanguage - additional Multilanguage functionality in Navision Solutions 3.00 There will be improvements too C/SIDE and all tools used in the localization to a Multilanguage version of Navision Solutions 3.00. Navision Solutions for Service Management Navision Solutions for Service Management is a whole new offering for Navision Solutions 3.00. The application targets service organizations that want to deliver superior customer service while staying profitable. Service Item Management Service Item Management allows a service organization to register basic information about the equipment performing the service. This includes features, such as: Basic information: Contractual information. It is possible to enter/access contract-related information on each service item, such as response time, contractual values, upcoming service, and so on. Component management. It is possible to manage service items, which have BOM-like component structure. This enables the service organization to manage, for example, warranty issues separately on a component level, and it also enables the tracking of changes in composition of service items over time. Warranty management. It is possible to handle warranty on parts and labor separately, an important feature for most service organizations which want the ability to manage warranty as part of the overall service offering. Service history: A complete history of the service performed to a service item is available. This also includes contractual changes. Trendscape Analysis: The Trendscape analysis feature gives you key performance indicators (KPI’s) on the service item on a given time frame. Service Contract Management Service Contract Management enables service organization to setup, manage and monitor service related contractual engagements with their customers. This is facilitated through feature, such as: Basic information: Contract templates. It is possible to set up service contract templates and groups which allow service organizations to use and reuse standardized contractual information. Contract quotes. Service Management supports an iterative contract negotiation process through the use of contract quotes. Quotes can be saved, so the development of the contractual negotiation can be traced. Contract history. A complete history of the changes made to the contract is available. Contractual gains and losses. This feature gives the service organization an insight into the financial impact of contractual changes. Flexible invoicing: Invoicing of contracts and contractual-related service is very flexible. This ensures that the service organization can accommodate a wide range of business relationships, customs and practices. Trendscape Analysis: The Trendscape analysis feature gives you key performance indicators (KPI’s) on the service contracts on a given time frame. Service Order Management To many service organizations the management of service orders is key to their business. Service Order Management is made easy and accommodating through the following features: Service request handling: Quotations. It is possible to convert quotes to actual service orders, addressing the need of many service organizations to treat service order quotes separately from actual service orders. Preventative maintenance service orders. Service requests don’t have to be initiated by the customer, but they can also be generated by contractual obligations, for example. Reactively generated service orders. Service Management supports service requests either by existing customers or on a “once-off” basis from walk-up customers. Service item worksheet: Service item worksheet. Service Management offers service item worksheets as an effective tool that enables technicians to enter spare parts used and time spent to resolve service issues. The information entered on these worksheets are the basis for the invoicing. Fault and resolution management: Fault and resolution management. This is a flexible tool for managing fault and resolution classifications. This feature gives service organizations the benefit of a structured management approach without imposing certain work routines on them. Service Management also supports industrywide standard fault and resolution management approaches. Loaner management: Loaner management. Service Management supports management of equipment loaned to customers during a service process, increasing the ability of service organizations to deliver superior customer service. Service history: Service Management provides a complete history of the changes made to a service order. Planning and dispatching The planning and dispatching features allows service organizations to schedule and allocate resources in an optimal way to meet customer expectations and obligations. Planning: Planning. The ability to plan resources according the service obligations engaged is key to most service organizations. Dispatching: Dispatching. The dispatching feature gives the opportunity to schedule and allocate resource according to e.g. availability, skills and geographical proximity to the service site. Furthermore the dispatching feature provides an overview of the overall service load level of the organization. Additionally service tasks can be prioritized and escalated from the dispatching feature. Job Scheduling Job scheduling enables service organizations to automate otherwise tedious and time consuming manual work like contract renewal and generation of preventative maintenance service orders. Other There are a number of crosscutting features available to assist service organizations in delivering superior customer service. Skills management: Skills management. It is possible to set up and manage the correlation of resource skills and service item types, so service organizations always know which technicians are skilled for servicing certain equipment types, for example. Price book management: Price book management. This feature allows service organization to use fixed service prices, typically used for standardized service offerings. Analytics, statistics and reports: There are a number of reports, statistical and analytical tools available for both short- and long-term analysis (both retrospective and prospective). These features give service organizations an overview of their service business. Integration Service Management is tightly integrated to the rest of the Navision Solutions suite, and this allows service organizations to reap the full benefit of an integrated service solution. Sales & Receivables: Service lead creation. It is possible to set up items so that a sale will automatically generate a type of service item. Because add-on sales (for example, a service contract) often are processes separate to the actual sales processes, this feature can potentially save companies for a lot of time-consuming manual follow-up work. Purchasing & Payables: It is possible to create purchase orders directly from a service order and link the two. Distribution: Shipping. The shipping of spare parts in relation to service, for example, is handled via the functionality in the distribution module. Manufacturing: Reservation and tracking. Reservation of spare parts for service orders and status tracking of spare parts manufactured are supported in Navision Solutions 3.00. Resources. The information (for example, capacity levels) on the resources registered in Navision Solutions 3.00 is used by Service Management for resource planning and allocation. Service history. It is possible to access the service order history log via Business Interaction Management. Cost distribution. It is possible to relate service orders to jobs in the job module for cost distributions purposes.
ALELUYAAA!!! God Lives!!! Miracle!!! >>> Events The Automation Controller has been improved with support for COM Events. COM Events will allow a trigger to execute from an external appellation. For example, the phone rings and a TAPI appellation will execute a trigger in a single instance code unit, there will display a form with the customers data on. <<<< Finally we’ll got Events and without having to wait to Navision v6.0… XDDD Marcus, do you remember that a few posts/days ago we’re joking about it?? XDDD – Alfonso Pertierra email@example.com Spain