I’m not sure but I would have believed that NavisionDamgaard was a international oriented company. That they too would know that the world is getting smaller. And that New York is only a phone call and a 160ms away (time to ping BMI in New York) from me here in Copenhagen Denmark. A company like Business Management International (an many other NSC’s) hires experienced Navision professionals from not only Denmark, but from many other companies in the world. They usually bring their national Navision certification. When we did this first time in 1995 (when I came to BMI), I actually believed that this would be just a “transfer”. Remember that you can transfer almost every other education (doctor, engineer etc.). But no. Navision required that you came to Atlanta to be tested by THEIR PEOPLE. So have this changed the last 6 years? No. I’m not sure if other NTR’s have the same strict rules, but I would like to hear from you. I understand that the national distributors want to make sure that they don’t certify people who are supposed to do sales, support, training and implementation, if they don’t know the national product (know the specialties of this national version - i.e. payroll or sales tax), but for the rest of us - the technicians and developers. Isn’t development or installation the same in Denmark, USA or Germany? I just don’t get it… Best regards Erik Ernst Who talks as himself - not as a BMI employee or NOLUG webmaster
Hi Erik, According to NDHQ a certification is valid in ALL Navision countries. If an NTR tells you differently they are either not informed correctly OR they have some form of hidden agenda. In addition, the concept from NDHQ is that the certification does NOT require training, but only passing of a test - the idea being that ND does not care WHERE you obtaind the knowledge as long as you’ve obtained it. HOwever, some countries still are doing things differently, and they get away with it because we don’t know the internal reccomendations :-/ Lars Strøm Valsted Head of Project and Analysis Columbus IT Partner A/S www.columbusitpartner.com
Erik, you probably could grant an exception for the training, and just attend the written and practical test. I know it is possible to take at least the written test at a remote test-location, and thus not having to go to Atlanta. /Soren
And i think that US learned something from their early years, where almost “everyone” could acquire a developer license. A lot of solutions got really bad screwed up by people who didn’t have a clue on what they were doing. With this strict certification, they make sure that a person holding the developer status, has at least “some” knowledge of the application :-). /Soren
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Originally posted by lstroem: According to NDHQ a certification is valid in ALL Navision countries. If an NTR tells you differently they are either not informed correctly OR they have some form of hidden agenda. In addition, the concept from NDHQ is that the certification does NOT require training, but only passing of a test - the idea being that ND does not care WHERE you obtaind the knowledge as long as you’ve obtained it.
See I believed that this was what I’d heard before. And this was what I believed to be true. But Lars do you mean that it’s OK that ND are requirering that you must be tested twice in the same software? Rgds Erik Ernst
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Originally posted by SNielsen: And i think that US learned something from their early years, where almost “everyone” could acquire a developer license. A lot of solutions got really bad screwed up by people who didn’t have a clue on what they were doing. With this strict certification, they make sure that a person holding the developer status, has at least “some” knowledge of the application :-).
Søren I don’t think that you’re quite fair here. You can’t blame Navision’s training in the “early US days” for bad and screwed up solutions. Navision US has always trained and tested everyone before they’ve given out a developer license. What you can blame them for is more that the companies they signed up wasn’t ready for Navision. Implementing and succeeding with Navision is a team work - not the work of one good programmer. This is in my view a completely different discussion, that I would like to take as well - but let’s start a new topic for this. The problem is more that NavisionDamgaard has not yet standardized the requirements. Lars Strøm claims that they have, then the problem must between NavisionDamgaard US and DK. (I still haven’t heard about this in other countries!). They still require you to take the test (I’m saying that they require you to take the training again - just the test), even when you have a certificate from NavisionDamgaard in another country. Rgds, Erik Ernst
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Originally posted by SNielsen: I know it is possible to take at least the written test at a remote test-location, and thus not having to go to Atlanta.
Yes I think you’re right. I think it’s the “Navision 101” test, that you can take world wide in a certified training institute. I just don’t get it that they don’t accept their own sister companies to do this! Erik
No you can take the Navision Solution Developer test at eg. New Horizons, at least we did that in California. /Soren
Erik, I do not think it is okay to be tested twice in the same product. And this is also the view of NDHQ - at least it was when I was employed there. Lars Strøm Valsted Head of Project and Analysis Columbus IT Partner A/S www.columbusitpartner.com
Sorry to say but in the UK the standard of developers is poor. There is a test in place but it’s not for developers but I belive that will be changing. This has resulted in poor projects being implemented and Navision’s reputation being soiled. But there are a few good developers who are able to put thing right. It is the lack of Navision skills in the UK that causes this. Sit some low level exams and you got a licence! David Cox MindSource (UK) Limited Navision Solutions Partner Email: david@mindsource.co.uk Web: www.mindsource.co.uk
It is my understanding that each NTR can currently test you separately because your passing their certification means that they must support you. Personally, I agree with this policy. As David mentions there are many people certified as developers who shouldn’t be. Doesn’t it bother you to see someone ask a question when you know you can find the answer and an example by simply looking at the help? It does me. If the developer is really as good as they say they are then they can simply challenge the test as Soren states. However, if they can’t pass the test then perhaps they need some retraining. Personally, I don’t see the problem. Also, I think we should all be glad that NavisionDamgaard hasn’t decided to become like Microsoft and only certify you for that version. Hence, each time a new version comes out you must be recertified. Actually, maybe NavisionDamgaard should force everyone to get recertified - especially if they come up with a new world wide certification. Then, you would be able to go from country to country without having to recertify and the person hiring you would know that you understand the development environment and your NTR wouldn’t have to worry about you asking basic questions.
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Originally posted by mctester: Actually, maybe NavisionDamgaard should force everyone to get recertified - especially if they come up with a new world wide certification. Then, you would be able to go from country to country without having to recertify and the person hiring you would know that you understand the development environment and your NTR wouldn’t have to worry about you asking basic questions.
I only agree with you in this. They should make a new world wide certification. But it should really be world wide, but just in the countries who choose to participate in this. Best regards, Erik P. Ernst, webmaster Navision Online User Group
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Originally posted by Admin:
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Originally posted by SNielsen: I don’t think that you’re being quite fair here. You can’t blame Navision’s training in the “early US days” for bad and screwed up solutions. Navision US has always trained and tested everyone before they’ve given out a developer license. What you can blame them for is more that the companies they signed up wasn’t ready for Navision. Implementing and succeeding with Navision is a team work - not the work of one good programmer.
The solution developer course is tough (though not too tough because I passed it the first time through.) It is intended as just one step in a lifetime of training. A problem which I ran into at the NSC where I used to work that my solution developer license was viewed as the whole company’s solution developer license. On one level, this makes sense since the company paid for my training expenses (though the class itself was free) and since the license (though not the certification itself) belonged to the company. On the other hand, this did not make sense, because a lot of solution development work was done using my solution developer’s license by employees (especially my boss, who was the CEO, and who also managed every project) who had never been to the solution developer class (let alone passed the test.) Some of this work was good, some of it was not so good— and all of it was done without much knowledge of what was going on “under the hood.” This was a problem which was not limited to programming. Because we had an employee (the CEO) who had passed the sales course, we never bothered to send our marketing assistant (who created all the sales materials and who did all the cold calling) to the class. (We also never exposed her to any versions of the software newer than 2.00, even though we were selling 2.60 when I left.) Because we had two employees (myself and the CEO) who had been through the old Enterprise training which included some implementation, we never sent our implementation person to the implementation class. The purpose of the certification classes was seen as simply getting enough certificates to meet the minimum requirements to keep our franchise. The concept of going to classes to learn how to use the software to its fullest advantage was largely foreign to us. One more thing about my license was this: we were running the whole office using my SD license. My boss and/or the implementor, when he went to client’s sites, used my SD license. Was this what we were supposed to do, or were we supposed to use different licenses for those functions? ------- Tim Horrigan horrigan@aol.com Edited by - horrigan on 2001 Apr 10 17:20:59
I went to atlanta and took the class, two weeks, it wasn’t a cake walk, but it wasn’t rocket science either. I think the class would have gone better if they would have adheared to the “programming” prerequsit. I don’t think accountants who can write macros in Excel qualify as experianced programmers. Grace M. Grady, MCP, NCSD grace@elypsis.com grace@morgain.net
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Originally posted by horrigan: … A problem which I ran into at the NSC where I used to work that my solution developer license was viewed as the whole company’s solution developer license. On one level, this makes sense since the company paid for my training expenses (though the class itself was free) and since the license (though not the certification itself) belonged to the company. … One more thing about my license was this: we were running the whole office using my SD license. My boss and/or the implementor, when he went to client’s sites, used my SD license. Was this what we were supposed to do, or were we supposed to use different licenses for those functions?
I’m sorry to say but I don’t think your company is the only place where this happens. And I would be very surprised if Navision didn’t know that this was going on. THE DEVELOPER LICENSE IS PERSONAL. You are the only one who actually may use. You may not use it to run the whole office (I know at least here in the DK - Navision assign a Internal license to all NSC’s that they can use to run their own system on). The problem is of cause that you as an employee don’t want to tell your boss that “he cannot use your license”. Navision is actually giving out licenses to everyone who have passed their training - but only to the level their training have give them access to. I.e. if your boss took the application developer test (but not the solution developer), then this will be the level on his license. With the new Navision Solutions 3.0 Navision a/s have done a little to actively make sure that people who are using another persons license know that this is not only wrong but also illigal. In general I think these rules are fine, although I sometimes would like to try out some new stuff that I still haven’t been trained for. Or if you work on a project, let’s say the customer is using Navision Advanced Distribution, and you’re supposed to simply modify the invoice. But you can’t test it, because you not passed the NAD product training. The same thing goes on with Navision Manufacturing. In these cases I think that the Solution Developer license should also allow you access the NAD and NM objects. At least with a read/modify access - the same way as you as an US NSC have access to read/modify all US add-ons (in the add-on program). Best regards, Erik P. Ernst, webmaster Navision Online User Group
It did ask my boss why we were using the SD license to run the office. He just said that it was a perfectly normal thing to do. I am not sure what the difference is between a “Application Developer” license and a “Solution Developer” license. I know that there is an Application Designer package which end-users can buy, which allows them some of the power of a NSC Solution Developer. But, how does this apply to an NSC’s own license which it uses to run its own office? ------- Tim Horrigan horrigan@aol.com
He is right. It’s a perfectly normal thing to do! But I, like almost every one else, am driving to fast on the freeway, but therefor it’s not legal! Until now it’s my impression that Navision did not do anything about this. Neither did they really care. But with the changes they made in Navision Solution 3.0, I think that if they are not going to change this behaviour, then they shouldn’t do such a change. Here is what you have to accept every time you access the system in Navision Solutions: You are now accessing a Navision a/s program. License to access this program is granted to at NSC only. This license is stricly personal. IF YOU ARE NOT at NSC, ACCESSING THIS PROGRAM WILL MEAN A VIOLATION OF NAVISION’S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS AND LINCENSING CONDITIONS. THIS CONSTITUTTES A LEGAL OFFENCE AND WILL RESULT IN LEGAL PROCEEDINGS AGAINST YOU. No distributor, partner or NSC, etc. of Navision a/s can grant exemption from these limitations in the license. And then you must say “I REJECT” or “I ACCEPT”. So take that… Please mark that they haven’t changes the licensing rules. This is actually how it is today, and what you sign when you sign the licensing agreement, when you get your license. Best regards, Erik P. Ernst, webmaster Navision Online User Group
Solution developer’s license allows you to run a ledger tables and manually change/delete the entries. Application developer (or builder) that is available to the customers, gives you same access to the code, posting routines and such, BUT - the ledgers stay off limits. The end result - customers can not manually edit or write something to modify/delete any info in the ledgers, they have to use posting routines. Since all major reporting comes out of ledgers, it is really important that the end-users can not edit this information. This is not Excel, ya know…
Hello People, Since the topic about training and ceritifcation is on i would like to ask the gurus if they can offer a lil help to a Novice. I have been working with Navision Financials since sometime now, I would like to appear for Navision ceritifaction test. Since i dont know much about the Testing procedure can someone tell me how do i go about it and also if there any sample tests or tutrial sites which one can use for information on how the questions are asked, I know they ask multiple choice questions and its a one hour test etc… As Soren stated that there can a written and practical test can be appeared for, can Soren or n e one help me with this procedure, I would be really thankfull as the company that i am working for is pressurising on Certification. Im sorry if i have posted this in the wrong section. Thanking u all in anticipation Vishal
Edited by - vshal on 2001 May 21 21:42:51