Blue Cds - message to NSCs

In my many years working with NSCs, one of the most amazing things I always find, is the lack of Navision CDs. If I go to Staples or Computer World or what ever, and buy a game of tick tack toe or Tetris for $9.99 I get a CD. One with a label, and it looks like it was produced some how. But if I pay an NSC $999,999.99 for Navision, all I get is a no name CD, with Nav4sp1 hand written on it. Of which about 1/2 of these CDs work, the other half have the Database copied to the wrong directory, so during install I get an issue about insert CD2 or its on a DVD and I have to move the files into mapped drives to try to get the install to complete. WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT!!! Worst of all is when the consultant arrives on site with a home made CD, starts to install, finds a file missing, and has to down load it etc. etc. Do the math, Consultant rates VS cost of genuine CD. The conversion rate is minutes of consulting time VS CDs. So if the consultant spends 3 minutes on site of lost time due to a bad CD, the CD is paid for. (I do hope of course that the client is not charged for this time). In my 15 years working with Navision, I have NEVER gotten a bad CD from them. I don#8217;t know how they do it, but their CDs are extremely reliable, one would assume that Microsoft is even better. Of course Hot Fixes are different. I am only referring to new products with new functionality, and 4.00SP1 is definitely a new product. My recommendation to EVERY NSC, is that as soon as there is a new release of Dynamics NAV, that you immediately purchase an original CD set from Microsoft for every Customer and Every consultant that you have, the cost is trivial in relation to Support $ and Billable hours, but the benefits are tremendous. And then give a CD set to each of your Consultants and send one to each of your clients. Don’t wait for them to call you and request one. Not only do you fulfill your Support agreement, but you get an opportunity to contact the client, the client gets to “play” with the latest version, and you open the potential for a sale. Please don’t send them home made CDs, its cheap, and it makes you look cheap. I would like to hear from NSCs as to weather this makes sense, and from End Users, have you received Home Made CDs for million dollar software and how does it feel.

I would not want our customers to have the original cd’s for various reasons. First we keep upto date with the latest hot fixes which are always put on out latest disk image. Second if your customer knows that a new version exists they may demand that they use it although it may just be a client upgrade it can be a pain. Third if the client connect to the live system with the new version and converts the database you then have to do an unplanned client upgrade, which is not much fun over thousands of computers on hundreds of sites in multiple countries as may be the case for some of our customers. But yes presentation is something that is important and it is not difficult to get cd labels and inserts professionally printed.

I would advocate giving all CD’s to consultants, as an NSC employee I would only want to send out a current live CD pre-installation, and one for upgrades. If you sent out all new releases to all customers then customers on earlier versions have the potential to get confused with the arrival of the new CD. From our perspective we issue the ones we purchase from Microsoft, so they are not homemade, but I can also vouch for asking a customer for the original CD and then no longer having any idea where it is, so not only do NSC’s issue million dollar software on homemade CD’s but then the customer puts a coffee cup on the CD’s and eventually bins them [:D] Is this coming out of a current bad experience???

Actually no it goes back many years. In fact its two issues, and I tried eventually to break them into two threads, maybe it should have been three. 1/ Delivery of professional media. I have come across a number of NSCs that deliver home made CDs, and even worse that give their consultants hom emade CDs. I htink bioth these actions are wrong. 2/ If a client pays for support and upgrades, then each time the NSC receives the Cheque/Check they need to consider why they are getting the money. Every supported end user that pays money deserves to know that a new version is available, and the implications of that new version to them. 3/ Hot fixes are GOOD, don’t hide them from your clients, SELL them on how good this is. I see it as one of the best things that came out of Microsoft Buying Navision.

quote:

I would not want our customers to have the original cd’s for various reasons. … Third if the client connect to the live system with the new version and converts the database you then have to do an unplanned client upgrade, …
Originally posted by triff - 2006 Feb 22 : 16:48:01

Paul, I culd not seriously imagine a Client accidently shutting down their existing server, then accidently uninstalling the existing Navision server, accidently disconnecting all the users, then accidently installing the new server, then accidently starting the new server, then accidently installing the new client, then accidently connecting to the newly installed server, then accidently saying yes twice to the warning message, its just toooo many accidents in a row to get to that point. If you mean in a SQL environmanet, then surely that client would have trained DBAs that know what they are doing. I really can’t see this as a valid reasoning sorry.

Hi David

quote:

1/ Delivery of professional media. I have come across a number of NSCs that deliver home made CDs, and even worse that give their consultants home made CDs. I think both these actions are wrong. 2/ If a client pays for support and upgrades, then each time the NSC receives the Cheque/Check they need to consider why they are getting the money. Every supported end user that pays money deserves to know that a new version is available, and the implications of that new version to them. 3/ Hot fixes are GOOD, don’t hide them from your clients, SELL them on how good this is. I see it as one of the best things that came out of Microsoft Buying Navision.

Couldn’t agree more. Although with many of our customers who are on a stable version in the areas they use they simply do not want to move - customers prerogative [:D]. This is irrelevant of costs, as this is never discussed. Customers like the new options but in many instances stick with what they know. With the hotfixes I am not involved in these, but my understanding is that when they are issued they are reviewed for impact on current customer modifications and then incorporated or not. Obviously a customer not using the manufacturing modules will not need a hotfix helping with capacity planning, but as I say this is not really an area I am fully involved with, but I feel our customers do get the hotfixes they need, it is certainly never hidden behind!

Hi Steven, I knew It was hard to split this topic, but I’ll reply to the CD bit here. My issues are two, 1/ that Users paying big bucks should expect to get genuine Microsoft CDs, not home made ones, I wanted to know if this was a rare thing, OR are there end users out there that have received Navision on hom emade CDs. 2/ That even if the client will not upgrade, they shoul at least get the CD (and an upgraded license) so that they can at least look at the new functionality that they have paid for.

I was not replying to the other topic as you asked for “customers” [:D] However with hotfix emails (to cause confusion and reply here) our customers on 3.10 will simply delete an email telling them of the latest 4.0 hotfix in an area they do not use. I am not saying it will not work, but in the SME market many businesses dont even have an IT skills, its all outsourced. Maybe making it an opt in service would work. I do not believe it is something we currently do, but perhaps asking our customers is the first step. It would also be nice if as an NSC if Microsoft actually emailed us of a hotfix, and of the detail it actually contained. You only get told if you have an affect support incident, and the documentation on the hotfix itself does not always contain enough detail of what is resolved, more of a broad brish approach. On the two other points you have no argument from me.

quote:

I was not replying to the other topic as you asked for “customers” [:D] However with hotfix emails (to cause confusion and reply here)…
Originally posted by SBWEAVER - 2006 Feb 22 : 18:28:45

[:(!] Can you split the reply in two, so I knwo which reply is to whcih post, its getting confussing [:D]

I was confused at the start! With the professional CD’s and clients getting CD’s I do not have any issue with this. In reply to the hotfix question in the other post where you asked for customer opinions I was just saying

quote:

However with hotfix emails (to cause confusion and reply here) our customers on 3.10 will simply delete an email telling them of the latest 4.0 hotfix in an area they do not use. I am not saying it will not work, but in the SME market many businesses don’t even have an IT skills, its all outsourced. Maybe making it an opt in service would work. I do not believe it is something we currently do, but perhaps asking our customers is the first step. It would also be nice if as an NSC if Microsoft actually emailed us of a hotfix, and of the detail it actually contained. You only get told if you have an affect support incident, and the documentation on the hotfix itself does not always contain enough detail of what is resolved, more of a broad brush approach.

David I see all your clients are still using the classic database. If you are using SQL then you get a message “your database needs upgrading to use this version” and you say yes a couple of times and nobody can access the database with the old client. We do not have new clients that use the classic database and the two cases when this has happened it was either the IT manager or the DBA who has done it??? It is one thing to update the client but to update the database does takes hundreds of hours and as much testing. You either supply standard Navision or very small systems.

And here comes my bit: 1. Yes, the customer should get a genuine CD when purchasing such a valuable product. 2. Yes, the customer should get a printed manual (as we know it from the good old times) or at least a usable manual as PDF. The problem is just that there are is no valid documentation available for all parts of the Navision product. 3. A customer should get a new genuine CD as soon as an upgrade takes place. I fully agree with the problems Paul mentioned regarding the accidential “upgrade” of the database. I have seen this happening quite some times already.

So Paul you are saying that you wouldn’t give clients genuine Microsoft Navision CDs?

quote:

… the two cases when this has happened it was either the IT manager or the DBA who has done it??? …
Originally posted by triff - 2006 Feb 22 : 19:00:00

At least it good to see that I won’t be out of work for many years to come [^] [:D] [^]

Being on the client side of things, I would love to see a genuine CD from MS. Or, even if it had to be run through our NSC, I don’t care, but I do like to know that I have a valid CD copy archived somewhere, so that if for some reason you need it, it is there. True, I don’t think that most customers will need these CD’s. But, I know that I am more than capable to do a point upgrade of clients, and now I’ve got to pull teeth at my NSC either get a CD sent to me, or worse, go and download a bunch of files from some NSC web site. We pay for the product, we pay for the yearly maintenenance (which has increased greatly), we should get something. And not to get too off topic here, but it would be nice if at the very minimum MS provided through CustomerSource a place to download the documentation for the product, somewhere. There is no reason why I should have to ask my NSC so that I can get a PDF file on the GL granules, etc. And don’t even let me get in to the teasing that MS does in CustomerSource, saying that yes, we have a wonderful hotfix for this that will fix your problem, but, we will provide you no method to get it. I mean they don’t even provide any objects, we as customers kind of get nothing.

This is also coming from the Customer side. I’ve seen NSC’s delivering both: either Navision pressed CD’s with a really nice blue cover or just a plain CD which they burned themselves. It could also be a little country dependent, I’ve never seen a genuine CD in Portugal - with different NSC’s - but we do get them in Germany or in Czech Republic, for example - with, admittedly, the same NSC’s. Of course, the official CD is a much better way to present the product to customers, no argument with that. I personally do not pay that much attention to it, but that’s just me because I copy everything into an external hard drive and carry it around. If you poll the customers, of course they will all say: yes, an original CD should be included in the price. It’s insignificant for the vendor, really. So, why not do it anyway? I remember once asking for a Product-CD from a portuguese NSC knowing that they needed only to burn a copy and send it out with the mail (that should amount to less than 1 EUR in expenses). Now, at the time, we were not connected to any NSC in Portugal. A few days later, all hell broke loose because they had asked for a license transfer and so on. Microsoft had to sort it out themselves by contacting all parties involved. In the end, we had one consultant coming in to our office to deliver us a TDK or Sony CD containing Navision. That felt really cheap at the time, specially after all the trouble.

Thanks Torolf and Nelson, this exactly what I am hearing from Navision end users, that they want a CD, but I think that fromt he NSC replies here, you can see that I am right that SOME NSCs just don’t listen. OK not too many replies yet, but they are basically what I was expecting to hear. PS: I did have a Navision user contact me since they could not install Navision, only to find out that their NSC had burnt a bad CD.

quote:

David I see all your clients are still using the classic database. …
Originally posted by triff - 2006 Feb 22 : 19:00:00

[?] [?] [?]

Microsoft does send original CDs to the customers who are on the enhancement program. Actually, they send it to the VARs and it’s the responsibility of the VARs to send them to the customers. We just got a bunch of packages from Microsoft for our customers who are on the enhancement program.

quote:

I was not replying to the other topic as you asked for “customers” [:D] However with hotfix emails (to cause confusion and reply here) our customers on 3.10 will simply delete an email telling them of the latest 4.0 hotfix in an area they do not use. I am not saying it will not work, but in the SME market many businesses dont even have an IT skills, its all outsourced. Maybe making it an opt in service would work. I do not believe it is something we currently do, but perhaps asking our customers is the first step. It would also be nice if as an NSC if Microsoft actually emailed us of a hotfix, and of the detail it actually contained. You only get told if you have an affect support incident, and the documentation on the hotfix itself does not always contain enough detail of what is resolved, more of a broad brish approach. On the two other points you have no argument from me.
Originally posted by SBWEAVER - 2006 Feb 22 : 12:28:45

Microsoft posts their hotfixes openly on the Customersource. Every customer that purchased Navision and is on the Enhancement program have access to customer source. Customers can logon freely at any time to see what’s new. However, I do agree that it’s much more professional if the consultant actively approach the customers if there are hotfixes out.